[Ar-list] Getting rid of the Freudian attributes

[John W. Pierce]

By far the greatest value of AR lies in the concept of the DRF. It's the
best mechanism I've ever seen for having skills/attributes that work in
a quasi-realistic manner. One thing to note for a computer game (CRPG or
MUD) is that it's trivial to alter ("tune") the exact shape of the
curve, have different curves (equations) for different classes, etc.
This is quite useful. For example, re-learning a skill is much faster
than learning it the first time.

Once you understand the DRF, then the exact details of the various
attributes are not particularly important to the system in the abstract,
though they are, of course, of critical importance to a particular
"reality". The real importance of AR is in the principles involved. The
attributes given in the basic guide are extremely well thought-out and
comprehensive, but there's no necessity to follow them religiously. Drop
them, change them, and add new ones, as you see fit. So if you don't
like Id, Ego, and Superego, then rename them or drop them, or add things
that better fit your vision of your world. Again, the usefulness and
importance of AR itself lies in the principles, not in the details.

It's useful, at least for a computer implementation, to document
carefully the exact meaning of the attributes you choose to use and,
especially, their interrelationships. As an example, see

	
http://www.r2systems.com/Muve/Design/Objects/attrib_av_graph.html

This is a graph (in PNG format) I made several years ago of the
attributes of the avatar objects for a proposed MUD. There is a link on
it to a text explanation of the attributes, and that has a link on it to
the attributes of the "standard base object" that is inherited by both
non-avatar and avatar objects.

-- John W. Pierce, R2 Systems
   jwp@r2systems.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ar-list-admin@delfax.net 
> [mailto:ar-list-admin@delfax.net] On Behalf Of Joe Mason
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 4:47 PM
> To: ar-list@delfax.net
> Subject: [Ar-list] Getting rid of the Freudian attributes
> 
> 
> Checking the mailing list archives, I see that this is the 
> first post for about
> half a year.  Hi, everybody.
> 
> I recently found AR when I was looking around for a free RPG 
> system to use as
> the basis for a CRPG engine.  (I'd toyed with the idea of 
> doing it with
> Rolemaster for quite a while, but ICE's bankruptcy has sort 
> of shot that one
> down.)  I must admit that I initially wasn't sure how 
> seriously to take the
> whole thing - I'm on the last year of a B.Math, and I bounced 
> off the sidebar
> labelled "Coninuous Form Rational", thinking maybe the whole 
> thing was an
> elaborate parody.  Then I read Chameleon, which is one hell 
> of a campaign
> setting.
> 
> Anyway, to business.  I'm still absorbing the rules, but one 
> thing I really
> dislike is the use of Id, Ego and Superego attributes.  I 
> have a real dislike
> for Freud, so it ruins the immersion for me.  They'd be 
> appropriate for a
> modern setting game or maybe a B-movie scifi game ("Creatures 
> from the id!")
> but I prefer to avoid Freudian terms in my fantasy games.
> 
> The easiest way to get out of this is just to rename the 
> Level 1 attributes,
> which avoids having to worry about changing the inheritance 
> tree.  (Can you
> tell I'm a programmer?)  But I'd prefer to exise the whole triumvirate
> structure, becaue I really hate Freud that much.
> 
> I was thinking of renaming Id to Instint, dropping Superego 
> completely (since
> the "normative" force should really be defined entirely by 
> roleplaying), and
> adding a new stat "Resiliency" for Ego.  I call it a new stat 
> because it
> wouldn't be considered a "mediator between the Id and 
> Superego" anymore.
> Instead, it would directly measure coolness under fire, 
> ability to resist
> stress, etc.  This would give 4 Level 1 Psycho-Social 
> attributes, in line
> with the others (except Sensory, where the 5-way split is logical).
> 
> Er, except I just realized Willpower is Level 0, so this only leaves 3
> Level 1 attributes.  And "Presence, Instinct, Resiliency" 
> just doesn't seem
> to make a whole package somehow.  Any suggestions for how to 
> improve this?
> 
> Does anyone have any opinions on this?  How many rules depend 
> on Superego
> that might be broken by removing it? 
> 
> I suppose the same problem comes with using Verbal, 
> Quantitative, and Spatial
> stats in a fantasy game, but they seem easier to rename 
> because they're less
> culturally specific.  "Rhetoric", "Arithmetic", "Geometric" - 
> now we have
> cool stats for an ancient Greek game.
> 
> Joe 
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